Again I found myself on a discussion board and writing a long piece, so here it is:
I like some loose guys at the limit table, but I don't want two or three capping preflop every time. And sometimes I suspect collusion if guys are capping on junk. I suspected it the last time I played at the Orleans.
Usually, collusion is saved for no limit tables, but there are exceptions.
Basically, there is a lot of yelling in all poker. Plenty of macho crap and plenty of attitude that asserts the speaker is the only one who knows anything.
I only have a bankroll for limit and that is pretty much all I play. There is less yelling there, but often someone feels like they know how the game should be defined and how the rest of us should have played. Let them talk. Collect information. Give none out. Don't justify your play because it gives them a peek into how you think.
If you feel you have to comment, just lie. Pretend to be what you are not.
Or ask a question.
"'So, are you saying that raising when I have a chance for an inside straight is not a good mathematical play because I always do that? it always seems that a straight is a pretty damn good hand to hold.""
Basically, the rules define the game, and what you call or raise is all up to you.
Table selection then becomes a big issue in limit games. Position relative to the loose guy is important as well. I best like being directly to his left, but sometimes being directly to his right can work too.
Being directly to his left makes your raise more powerful because the guys acting after you know it can be raised by manic guy again and then by you again so those limit draws that are so popular because they are cheap suddenly become potentially very expensive. So if you have pocket Aces, kings, or queens a raise may easily make it a game between maniac guy and you. That is what you want.
I made a lot of money in one limit game because the guy to my left either bet or raised every time. So, I could decide based on my cards whether to wait to raise and let his bet squeeze the other players or raise and let his reraise limit the field of competition. So preflop with pocket Aces I would raise and let his reraise limit the guys playing crap straight draws, but with Ace King suited, I might deicde to let him raise, then reraise when it got around to me.
And after the flop I never bet. I let him bet and then when It got to me raised or folded. He was rarely out of a hand.
It is pretty hard for one guy to actually buy the pot in limit. The bets are too small. Bluffing is almost impossible. He may be stacking up a lot of chips because he is aggressive and betting all the time and others are folding. But you just play the good cards when they still look good. It does not cost much to call with a second best hand if you know the guy often bets with a fourth bet hand.
You don't want to be playing just to the right of blind straddle guy (another loose idiot) and have to miss every free flop. You don't want to be playing the big blind against a guy who habitually makes a button raise. Sometimes if I get a lot of suited connectors and raise the blind often a big blind will get very pissed at me and perhaps change seats.
I raise suited connectors on the button when the table is filled with passive callers and I almost always raise all straddles unless everyone has limped. Against a straddle, I either raise or fold. After all, if I have playable cards I am now in a hand with three blinds and one of them may reraise his straddle on habit.
When I button raise on suited connectors, my $2 gets another $18 in the pot, announces I have high cards so middle straight draws are unexpected, and at most tables can get me a free card even if a guy flops a very good hand. He wants to wait for me to bet again and then raise. Instead, faced with a four card straight or flush, I check. Perhaps the free card makes my straight or flush, so I can bet the $4 round. In that case strong guy bets, thinking now I am on A-K and flopped nothing, and is very surprised when I raise. Confused really. And finally mad.
Generally, I take a guy like that and get him even madder. Here are some retorts:
"Hey, when I can't play well, I always try to play lucky." Use this one while raking in the chips.
"Any two cards can win. Thanks for the call."
"I just could feel that my straight was coming. Sometimes the cards just talk to me and I have to do what they say."
" 7-8 is my favorite hand and I raise it even when they are not suited because you'd be surprised how many times they will catch on the flop. 6-9 is very good too."This last retort is very good if I have made a high card raise and it flops 7-8 and I mutter, "Wow, there it is again" and bet with just my high cards. A table that has learned that the two cards are my favorites may get out.
Sometimes on certain tables I button raise an Ace with a suited small card. I want to play it for the flush. Otherwise, I want to play it cheap. Again, I will often get a free card. And if an Ace flops I can check it and then see who bets the $4 round before I decide to call or fold. If it checks around to me after the turn, my Ace low kicker is probably a decent pair.
Also, keep in mind that your opponent wants to try to make your play predictable, and so that is the pressure of his complaint. That and his need to be an obnoxious know it all with firm ideas that he thinks everyone who is not stupid should agree with.
If he can get you to do what he thinks is the best play, then he can know when to stay or go.
Then too a good number of poker players are just pretty disgruntled folks who carp almost constantly about something.
They are annoying. They border on being sick.
The game is never good enough for them. Your betting is never good enough for them. What you say is never good enough.
So, say something that gets to them.
There is one regular at Foxwoods like that. Once I told him when he complained about the size of the pot he was taking in, "Look, there is no whining when you are winning."Another time he asked the dealer, "Don't give me any more good cards, they never win." and so when I beat him with high cards against some crap he played, I said, "Well, you should be happy because you got what you wanted."
"What!" he almost shouted.
"Well,you asked the dealer not to deal you any more high cards and so she didn't. You got your wish."
This grump syndrome is less true in Vegas where folks are on vacation and more true in local casinos around the country where the same guys play every day.
And there is some gambling addiction research that suggests some habitual gamblers really need to lose to feel right. They gamble until their money is gone. At a slot this is good for the house. At a poker table it is good for you.
Also, in 2-4 limit you want to have some action because without it, small pots passed around by players at the same skill level over a few hours will mean only the house wins. You want some loose player to build the pots and pay the rake even when they are clearly beaten. Then you pass the guy around.
Finally, if you play really good mathematical limit poker for too long at one table with the same people, your table image will impede your ability to win. When you bet out, they will all fold. It may mean you can bluff for a while on some tables, but you don't win as much bluffing here as you do on no limit tables and once you are caught bluffing once, you are done bluffing.
So one thing to do is play some junk cards in late position and if they flop anything, call and then make sure to show the junk with maybe a comment on how your favorite cards did not win. That will help balance table selection if you are tight and sit for long periods without getting in a pot. You want them to remember the junk.
Another thing to do is change tables often. Look for limit tables that just opened. In no limit you need plenty of time to access your opponents and you see fewer cards so that it takes longer. In limit most of the game is just playing good cards while they stay good, so changing tables does not mean as much work learning players habits, tells, styles, etc. You can quickly identify the guy who can't play and the guy who bets every hand. After a short while you can identify the rocks who only bet when they have the nuts.
One advantage limit has over no limit is that it is more of a social game. I played 10 hours of it yesterday and without some banter, some stories, some social interaction, some teasing.....with just ten hours of talk about why and who and what might have been called and how many outs someone had.... well, I like poker okay, but there are other aspects of life when strangers meet serendipitously that are interesting as well. At a no limit table I'm not going to get all the fishing stories that I gathered in Vegas last time or get to ask questions and talk to folks from all around the world. I like that part of the game just as if I go to a bar I like some interaction, not just alcohol. In Vegas, it is amazing what happens in the conversations.
I like some loose guys at the limit table, but I don't want two or three capping preflop every time. And sometimes I suspect collusion if guys are capping on junk. I suspected it the last time I played at the Orleans.
Usually, collusion is saved for no limit tables, but there are exceptions.
Basically, there is a lot of yelling in all poker. Plenty of macho crap and plenty of attitude that asserts the speaker is the only one who knows anything.
I only have a bankroll for limit and that is pretty much all I play. There is less yelling there, but often someone feels like they know how the game should be defined and how the rest of us should have played. Let them talk. Collect information. Give none out. Don't justify your play because it gives them a peek into how you think.
If you feel you have to comment, just lie. Pretend to be what you are not.
Or ask a question.
"'So, are you saying that raising when I have a chance for an inside straight is not a good mathematical play because I always do that? it always seems that a straight is a pretty damn good hand to hold.""
Basically, the rules define the game, and what you call or raise is all up to you.
Table selection then becomes a big issue in limit games. Position relative to the loose guy is important as well. I best like being directly to his left, but sometimes being directly to his right can work too.
Being directly to his left makes your raise more powerful because the guys acting after you know it can be raised by manic guy again and then by you again so those limit draws that are so popular because they are cheap suddenly become potentially very expensive. So if you have pocket Aces, kings, or queens a raise may easily make it a game between maniac guy and you. That is what you want.
I made a lot of money in one limit game because the guy to my left either bet or raised every time. So, I could decide based on my cards whether to wait to raise and let his bet squeeze the other players or raise and let his reraise limit the field of competition. So preflop with pocket Aces I would raise and let his reraise limit the guys playing crap straight draws, but with Ace King suited, I might deicde to let him raise, then reraise when it got around to me.
And after the flop I never bet. I let him bet and then when It got to me raised or folded. He was rarely out of a hand.
It is pretty hard for one guy to actually buy the pot in limit. The bets are too small. Bluffing is almost impossible. He may be stacking up a lot of chips because he is aggressive and betting all the time and others are folding. But you just play the good cards when they still look good. It does not cost much to call with a second best hand if you know the guy often bets with a fourth bet hand.
You don't want to be playing just to the right of blind straddle guy (another loose idiot) and have to miss every free flop. You don't want to be playing the big blind against a guy who habitually makes a button raise. Sometimes if I get a lot of suited connectors and raise the blind often a big blind will get very pissed at me and perhaps change seats.
I raise suited connectors on the button when the table is filled with passive callers and I almost always raise all straddles unless everyone has limped. Against a straddle, I either raise or fold. After all, if I have playable cards I am now in a hand with three blinds and one of them may reraise his straddle on habit.
When I button raise on suited connectors, my $2 gets another $18 in the pot, announces I have high cards so middle straight draws are unexpected, and at most tables can get me a free card even if a guy flops a very good hand. He wants to wait for me to bet again and then raise. Instead, faced with a four card straight or flush, I check. Perhaps the free card makes my straight or flush, so I can bet the $4 round. In that case strong guy bets, thinking now I am on A-K and flopped nothing, and is very surprised when I raise. Confused really. And finally mad.
Generally, I take a guy like that and get him even madder. Here are some retorts:
"Hey, when I can't play well, I always try to play lucky." Use this one while raking in the chips.
"Any two cards can win. Thanks for the call."
"I just could feel that my straight was coming. Sometimes the cards just talk to me and I have to do what they say."
" 7-8 is my favorite hand and I raise it even when they are not suited because you'd be surprised how many times they will catch on the flop. 6-9 is very good too."This last retort is very good if I have made a high card raise and it flops 7-8 and I mutter, "Wow, there it is again" and bet with just my high cards. A table that has learned that the two cards are my favorites may get out.
Sometimes on certain tables I button raise an Ace with a suited small card. I want to play it for the flush. Otherwise, I want to play it cheap. Again, I will often get a free card. And if an Ace flops I can check it and then see who bets the $4 round before I decide to call or fold. If it checks around to me after the turn, my Ace low kicker is probably a decent pair.
Also, keep in mind that your opponent wants to try to make your play predictable, and so that is the pressure of his complaint. That and his need to be an obnoxious know it all with firm ideas that he thinks everyone who is not stupid should agree with.
If he can get you to do what he thinks is the best play, then he can know when to stay or go.
Then too a good number of poker players are just pretty disgruntled folks who carp almost constantly about something.
They are annoying. They border on being sick.
The game is never good enough for them. Your betting is never good enough for them. What you say is never good enough.
So, say something that gets to them.
There is one regular at Foxwoods like that. Once I told him when he complained about the size of the pot he was taking in, "Look, there is no whining when you are winning."Another time he asked the dealer, "Don't give me any more good cards, they never win." and so when I beat him with high cards against some crap he played, I said, "Well, you should be happy because you got what you wanted."
"What!" he almost shouted.
"Well,you asked the dealer not to deal you any more high cards and so she didn't. You got your wish."
This grump syndrome is less true in Vegas where folks are on vacation and more true in local casinos around the country where the same guys play every day.
And there is some gambling addiction research that suggests some habitual gamblers really need to lose to feel right. They gamble until their money is gone. At a slot this is good for the house. At a poker table it is good for you.
Also, in 2-4 limit you want to have some action because without it, small pots passed around by players at the same skill level over a few hours will mean only the house wins. You want some loose player to build the pots and pay the rake even when they are clearly beaten. Then you pass the guy around.
Finally, if you play really good mathematical limit poker for too long at one table with the same people, your table image will impede your ability to win. When you bet out, they will all fold. It may mean you can bluff for a while on some tables, but you don't win as much bluffing here as you do on no limit tables and once you are caught bluffing once, you are done bluffing.
So one thing to do is play some junk cards in late position and if they flop anything, call and then make sure to show the junk with maybe a comment on how your favorite cards did not win. That will help balance table selection if you are tight and sit for long periods without getting in a pot. You want them to remember the junk.
Another thing to do is change tables often. Look for limit tables that just opened. In no limit you need plenty of time to access your opponents and you see fewer cards so that it takes longer. In limit most of the game is just playing good cards while they stay good, so changing tables does not mean as much work learning players habits, tells, styles, etc. You can quickly identify the guy who can't play and the guy who bets every hand. After a short while you can identify the rocks who only bet when they have the nuts.
One advantage limit has over no limit is that it is more of a social game. I played 10 hours of it yesterday and without some banter, some stories, some social interaction, some teasing.....with just ten hours of talk about why and who and what might have been called and how many outs someone had.... well, I like poker okay, but there are other aspects of life when strangers meet serendipitously that are interesting as well. At a no limit table I'm not going to get all the fishing stories that I gathered in Vegas last time or get to ask questions and talk to folks from all around the world. I like that part of the game just as if I go to a bar I like some interaction, not just alcohol. In Vegas, it is amazing what happens in the conversations.
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