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Technology and Gambling

Neighbor Ron shared a fine article in the January edition of Popular Mechanics on the security systems in Vegas. Much of it I had read before, but some of the observations I had not thought much about:

1. "There is no underwriter's Laboratory for security technology."
A good bit of the security used at airports and other industries is tested first in las Vegas because they invest and use the cutting edge technologies. And so become "a pioneer in surveillance tech and data mining."

2. Government benefits as well. "Slot machines all operate using a complex algorithm knows as a random-number generator. And the same technology that determines jackpots is also useful for high-tech cryptology, which protects government secrets via encryption.

3. New sensors can detect the presence of chips "whether they are in your pocket or your stomach"
So stealing chips will soon be almost impossible.

4. Secret files on personal data are becoming increasingly more sophisticated. There is a danger here. " Digital data has a long memory, and effective surveillance technology spreads fast. The software that measures your gambling skills at the blackjack tabel today could be the gathering data for your performance review tomorrow."

5. And here is the slot player's biggest nightmare:
"To make adjustments on standard slots, attendants have to stop play, open the housing and swap out the chips, a time-consuming process that reduces profits for the casino. The Mirage's soon-to-open sister property, Aria Casino and Resort, however will be the first casino in las Vegas outfitted with server based slot machines. That means Aria's one-armed bandits will run off a single computer, allowing supervisors to alter machines simply by pushing backroom buttons that can change games, odds and limits to suit the player or the situation."

http://casinogambling.about.com/od/slots/a/server.htm

http://www.slots.cd/server-based-slots.html

http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/article/server-based-games-26734

Well, there is lots more in the article.
A good article with some good and some bad news.

Resort Fee

NOTE: THIS POST IS NOW OUT OF DATE.  IT HAS BEEN UPDATED AND TURNED INTO ITS OWN SEPARATE BLOG FOR EASIER NAVIGATION.

http://vegasresortfees.blogspot.com/


BREAKING RESORT FEE NEWS!!!!!!!!
This answers the issue at Circus Circus.
And here too is exactly the squeeze that I've been writing about.
December 20 Circus Circus will have a Resort Fee of $3.95.
I called to book Circus Circus for April 23-24. After getting a quote on the room rate, I then asked about Resort Fees.
"Oh, no," says Rhonda. "No resort fees here. Just the dollar for unlimited local calls."

Yet they know those fees are coming for any booking I make in April.
Or January for that matter.
Nobody is talking. They talk to Vegas.com, but not to you and me.
BAIT AND SWITCH!
BAIT AND SWITCH!

I wrote Vegas.com because they show a Resort Fee, and here is their reply:
Hello,

Thank your for contacting us. We checked with management at Circus Circus and confirmed that they will be charging a resort fee of $3.95 beginning Dec. 20.

Kind regards,
Vegas.com

Meanwhile Circus-Circus in Reno is advertising with the slogan NO RESORT FEES. You go Reno. Hope this is the next trend.

http://www.circusreno.com/hotel/noresortfees.aspx

At Circus Circus Reno we add no hidden Resort Fees!

When we say we offer a free shuttle to and from the airport, we mean FREE!

We offer the most free covered valet and self parking in downtown Reno with over 3,000 spaces!

As a registered guest you have full access to our fitness center FREE of charge!

Many other Reno hotels say they offer these services free, but then charge you a "Resort Fee", per day, plus tax!

Don't get us wrong, some of our amenities do require a small fee like:

* Same day dry cleaning
* Wireless Internet Access
* Full-service Business Center
* Rollaway Beds (based on availability)
* Mini Refrigerators (based on availability)

But you, as our guest, make the decision to add these charges!

Circus Circus Reno strives to be the best value to our best asset, YOU, our Guest!

--------------------
December 20 - I wanted to check to see if the fee was up and working just to test Vegas.com on accurate information. I also wanted to test a theory from a poster on the LVA board that claimed anyone booking before the fee was in place for a time after the fee was imposed would be "grandfathered" in to paying no fee

I called Circus Circus again and so far the resort fee has not been implemented, but

"That doesn't mean it won't be next week"
said my operator whose name I won't give since I don't want her to be bothered.

Then I asked her about this grandfather theory. She said if I booked yesterday and the fee was in place in January (her guess as to when it might hit the computer) that I would not be grandfathered in when I arrived in April, but I would have to pay the fee.

I asked three times in three different ways and she said definitely, "No!" to the grandfather theory and added that she wished it would work like that because the way it works now she gets plenty of people yelling at her. She did say I could do what the guy in the last post did, call a manager, because he has the discretion to waive it. But that is no guarantee, is it?

Futhermore, she said that when they first imposed the dollar fee for unlimited calls no one was grandfathered.

So there it is. I do have to trust Vegas.com's connection that they really know about the coming imposition of the fee, but Vegas.com has no reason to make that fee up. It hurts their business.

And I don't care about this one casino. It is the practice. It seems to be tricking everyone into thinking that it is not a hidden fee likely to rise up and bite them at check in or check out.
The operator said she thought that resort fees don't work with any grandfathered protection in other casinos also.

I'd like to hear of one person who has been surprised with the resort fee and been grandfathered by the check in clerk as if that were the standard procedure. Who has had that experience?

******************************************************************************************


CHECK HERE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE RESORT FEE CURRENTLY IS:

1. This is a Vegas discussion board and the information will be updated quarterly. It will not agree with some other lists of resort fees, because some casinos tax the resort fee as well, and Viva Las Vegas who maintains this post has been nice enough to do the math and include the full amount that you have to pay.
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50749&highlight=resort+fees
2. Here is another interesting list.
http://www.vegashotelspecial.com/index.php/2009/10/07/hidden-fees-at-las-vegas-hotels-dont-be-a-victim/

3. This site even may predict Resort Fees that have not been noted yet on other lists:
However, some casinos will not be listed at all because they can't be booked here. Like Gold Spike.
http://www.vegas.com/incl/resortfees.html

4. These are more general articles on added fees:
http://hotels.about.com/od/hotelsecrets/a/avoid_charges.htm

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/watch-out-for-these-hotel-fees.html?id=3439912

5. An interesting collage of resort fee reports:
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US354&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=hidden+resort+fees+vegas&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hidden+resort+fees&hnear=vegas&view=text&ei=-ZgpS5mSOIvDlAfVxZyiBw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CC8QtQMwAw
******************************************************
A discussion of resort fees from September 2009:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=298169&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

This has got to be the funniest thread of December.  I post the Circus Circus news and keep getting the same off the cuff responses.  I try over and over to turn the generalizations with facts and wonder what is exactly going on and finally someone outs one of the main poster as a casino employee and it dawns on me why I am beating my head against a brick wall:  hidden fees combined with hidden agenda. 

More discussion is happening here in December 2009:

http://blonde4ever.yuku.com/topic/12968
and here
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=17&threadid=299964&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=
and here
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=299287&STARTPAGE=1&CFID=28914273&CFTOKEN=16527034
real argument here. I can't figure why people want to defend this practice or claim it is not a problem with "let the buyer beware" attitudes.
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=17&threadid=300075&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1


**********************************************************************************
Here are the issues as I see them:

The resort fee insults us, tries to trick us, and changes often, usually by going up.

By shouting some have had some success in getting the fees dropped, but as it becomes more and more common practice, the shouting is of no value.

COMPED ROOMS?

According to board posts, people with comped rooms are often not charged the fees, or are charged them and can argue their way out of them, but lately I have heard too reports of people with comped rooms being charged:
1. "MGM/Mirage has started to do it with some you can book directly online via the Player's Club."
2. "I confirmed it yesterday via NYNY. 2 comped nites, $25 free play AND a $10 per day resort fee."
this from
http://blonde4ever.yuku.com/topic/12968
3. "NYNY resort fee is 10.07/night. Even comped rooms have that fee. The only way to get them waived is by "play." this from http://www.vegasmessageboard.com
4."I checked into the Fiesta in Henderson a few days ago, it was comped, but the loser clerk tried to charge me a $11.89 per day resort fee upon checkout.For that dump? It took me an extra 15 minutes to get a suit to eliminate it. " This from LVA board.

Posters on the Trip Advisor Laughlin board report that the Venetian has a way to opt out of the fees for comped players.

Also, one poster who was going to Station casinos and getting comped rooms, said that the fees were waived but the benefits were not, including free internet. This poster liked the fees as it meant other people were funding his free internet.
"So, for free, I get the wireless internet, free drinks, paper and water which I use."

Purists are boycotting casinos that charge fees; I am just putting the price into my hotel searches and complaining. I admire purists.

If the fee is just a dollar, like Circus Circus could it be that the casino hopes to get good advertisement from such a low fee when it is compared against the high fee casinos?

Flamingo for April 2010 charged me a processing fee of $10 for my phone reservation. I am there five nights, so it is not much for the use of the pool and for my first stay on the strip, so I paid it. I have since found out that this is only charged if I use the phone to book.
When I booked another week in April at Imperial Palace, I could not manage it on the computer which kept saying I already had a reservation.
So I called to book. The girl told me that the computer reads bookings per month so that if we try to book two Harrah's properties in the same month, we will get rejected by the computer. So I called.
They booked me over the phone and when I asked, "So is this going to cost me the $10 processing fee..because the computer can't separate dates in the same month?"
"No," she said, since it was clearly a problem with the computer.
If you call and simply indicate you are unable to book on line, will they will waive the fee?I don't think they checked my other booking, but perhaps they did.
Anyway in the list Viva Las Vegas makes a good distinction between these processing fees that can be avoided and resort fees that cannot.

Some casinos tax the resort fee as well adding to the cost and making comparison shopping even more a comedy of errors.

Discounters don't reveal this practice of resort fees, so it is a surprise when you check out. Using the Kayak search engine used to result in a fine list of casinos arranged by price, but they now quote the room price and also underneath give a total figure that says it represents the charde with taxes and fees, but resort fees are not included in the mathematics.(see complaint to kayak below)
I generally use the discounters and arrange the casinos by price, low to high in a fine clear list. That is now impossible. One casino will look like a better deal than another, but it will actually be quite a bit more expensive because resort fees do now show up in the computer ranking of price low to high. This explains some of the reason the casino likes the hidden fee. They look better at the discounters than they really are.

Las Vegas Advisor monthly newsletter too was commenting on the low price of hotel rooms and offering examples without adding in the cost of the resort fees.

We may have buy a room early from the discounter and find it double in price by the front desk. What will happen if we book early with a discounter and the fee goes into effect or is raised while we wait for our dates to roll around? Do we pay the old fee? Do we pay the new fee?
It seemed to me in searching for information that Hooters may have raised their resort fee at least twice.

From now on when dealing with the hotels directly, I'll ask them to quote the entire price to me with taxes and fees included for easier comparison and then when I confirm, I'll check that total price as a way of insuring what I will pay. I'll also ask for a confirming email that includes total price. Some places will send that.

HOW TO COMPLAIN

What methods are there of protest?
Complain at the front desk. (While this is the weakest form of protest, this seems to still be working for people who find this added to their comped rooms or were not told when they booked.)
Complain in writing to someone who must answer.
Complain on public discussion boards.
Whenever you cancel a reservation, say it was because of the resort fee and say that in writing.
Put the entire hotel bill into dispute with your credit card company and let them wait for their money.
If you are trying to get it dropped, tell the casino you will dispute the entire bill with your credit card. It is more bother for them to go through that process than to waive the fee.

If you still get caught, then this might be a good thing to say and of course to put in writing.
"Fine, I'll pay this damn tricky resort fee, but I'll not wager a dime here. I'll go next door or down the street. When I'm here, I'll go on the internet in my room or to the fitness center. I'll enjoy the pool, and use up my points on free food, but I won't gamble here this trip. That will save me the resort fee. "

Vegas is hurting and I guess this is what they feel they must do to pull themselves out, but it is a mean thing they are doing, and they know it.
Generally, casinos try to mask their meanness. They don't display it in their advertisement. Until we start gambling, the casino generally fawns over us. Feeling like we are being treated kindly and with care is one reason we are willing to gamble at a place.
Check the comment on this board for November 2009 at NYNY. Do you think this customer is likely to go back to NYNY again?
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g45963-d91904-r49184607-New_York_New_York_Hotel_and_Casino-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

Glance through the comments on stays collected in the link in number 5 above. Are those folks likely to head back to the resort fee pirates?
One solution for most casinos might be to simply make the resort fee an option and include pool, spa, internet in that package. They could then perhaps often get the extra money, and the folks who choose not to pay it may be those who just want to gamble all day and will more than pay for their rooms that way.

I can't see paying $20 extra a night for anything. That is what I generally set as my total hotel bill for a night. I have seen posts where customers thought it was fine to pay it, however, even to pay that $25 fee charged by Red Rock.

The funniest Resort Fee has to be the Gold Spike. They just charge; they have absolutely nothing to list as a benefit.
The Gold Spike offers a $7.77 promotional coupon for a single weekday night in the 2010 American Casino Guide. Nothing on the coupon says anything about the $2 resort fee which adds 26% to that night's stay. They kept that information back from the American Casino Guide and you just know it is going to be something that folks will get angry about. This kind of bait and switch promotion also works to reduce the credibility of the American Casino Guide. It is a small amount, but it set folks to wonder. Promotional coupons to really work need to be redeemed smoothly so that the user are amazed they can get such a deal and so drawn to return to buy that coupon book and return to the promoted casino.
My last trip I found Gold Spike rooms advertised with discounters at $9 a night making the resort fee a 22% add on.
Now here is a new casino trying to win new customers and setting up a system for discouraging them from returning at the same time.(my letter included below)

Perhaps this will offer up a completely new form of coupon in the American Casino Guide. Why not have coupons that waive the resort fee? Room discounts have rather drained away in this publication. This might be a room discount coupon of value. On the other hand I suppose the casinos do not want to do anything to draw attention to the fact they charge these hidden fees.



************************************************************************

*********************************************************************
WRITTEN COMPLAINTS and POSTS OF INTEREST:

If you write letter in protest, paste it in the comment section of this post. Each one models what to say. I am starting by seeing if another Vegas reporting regular will add this information to their fine and funny casino reviews.


http://www.cheapovegas.com/index.php

12/13/10
open e-mail to cheapo las vegas
casinoboy@cheapovegas.com:

I have always loved your site since way back in the days of the old Gold Spike and your celebration of the little guy gambler.
Now a new ugly thing raises its head. Resort Fees. Consider adding that information to your casino reviews. It does require some updating, but there seem to be some folks doing that. I tried to collect them here

http://vegasbirthdaybash.blogspot.com/2009/12/all-i-know-about-insidious-resort-fees.html

Even your old favorite Gold Spike has a "resort fee". No resort amenities, just a hidden fee. Not like the old days of syrofoam plated egg breakfasts.Also, I'll link you in the favorites on my site if you like. Mine is just a blog. I sell nothing and no one advertises there nor will that happen.Have a good one. Watch out for hidden fees.

****************************************************************************************************************************
Letter to Gold Spike:

Open letter concerning Resort Fees‏

From:	dewey hill (deweyfhill@hotmail.com)
Sent:	Sun 12/13/09 8:43 AM
To:	generalmanager@goldspike.com

Well, I have been hearing such great reports on all the new renovations at your resort and had decided to give it a try when I come up in April.

Now I am rethinking my decision.

Why have you gone on the resort fee bandwagon?
It is not really the $2, but the idea that it is such a tricky tactic.
While the new renovation attracts, this resort fee repels.

And what exactly resort like do we get for the hidden $2? Pool? internet? laundry? business office use? gym?
I read that we get.........well...........nothing.
Guess I'll keep my El Cortez reservations. A bit more money perhaps, but I can count on few surprises except perhaps Jackie's unpredictable play at the poker table.

Sincerely
Dewey Hill

************************************************************************************
FEEDBACK FOR KAYAK SEARCH SITE

I used to recommend you all the time, but you are failing to figure in RESORT FEES when quoting in fine print the price with taxes and fees. It makes a huge difference and completely makes the list by price function of your site useless and deceiving.

From:	Gayle Evans, Kayak QA Engineer (225622.ee0@feedback.kayak.com)
Sent:	Fri 12/18/09 4:32 PM
To:	deweyfhill@hotmail.com

Hello, Thanks for taking the time to send us feedback about resort fees.  We are aware of this issue and are working with our providers to get this information.  I hope you will still use Kayak.  We not only read and respond to every feedback, but use this feedback to improve our products.



Thanks again,

************************************************************************************
FEEDBACK TO THE VEGAS.COM SITE

I'd like to thank you on behalf of many of my blog readers and myself for being so informative on RESORT FEES. Other sites allow these hidden fees to remain hidden, even claiming prices with taxes and fees but including the resort fees that can be as much as 25% of the booking.
It would be great if searches would arrange casinos by total price as that would make comparison shopping more easy, but you have done the next best thing with pop up warnings and a clear statement for each casino chosen.
Your site it already getting good marks on Vegas discussion boards for addressing this frustrating issue, and I'm certain you will find more customers booking through you because of your response to resort fees, many of them mad that their computer searches on other sites did not reveal actual cost.

*******************************************************************************
MY ANSWER TO A BOARD MEMBER ASKING WHEN DID ALL THIS HAPPEN AT HIS FAVORITE CASINO.
IT WASN'T THERE TWO MONTHS AGO, HE SAYS.

The "when" of the resort fee farce can be any day of any week for any casino. That is why Viva Las Vegas took on the task of updating the list here on this board(click), why some of the more savy discounters are getting the message that this is going to continue to be a frustrating hidden fee and they better get it communicated to their customers, and why I am trying to chase this thing into the ground on a daily basis.

RESORT FEE BLOG THREAD

For many, many customers the important "when" is the time in the room booking process when they learn that each of their nights might cost them another $25 and that all their comparison shopping did not mean much because quite simply they were quoted one price and will pay another.
Perhaps it is as they check in.
For some it won't be until check out.
And we will have to imagine that for many it won't be until they pay the Visa a month after they are home.

So at least here, where we talk to one another, we can stop this virus from infecting the pleasure of a Vegas trip, but even here we are always working behind the "when" of the decision.

Unlike casino implosions, the imposition of resort fees will not be televised.

The entire purpose of this practice is to get their hotel to look cheaper than the competition when someone does a search and pops them up ranked by price low to high as well as trick the customer into paying more.
Of course, the entire business of the casino is to trick the customer into paying more but generally they have kept the tricks confined to the slots, extra zeros on roulette, and dealers reminding us to bet the hard ways. They have not tried to trick us in the booking process itself.
But they are hurting for cash. So, like many financially strapped folks, mugging sounded like a good solution.
Hey, if the bankers can do it on house mortgages, why not do it on rented rooms?

Ask for total prices when you book.
Confirm those total prices when you confirm your room before heading out to Vegas.( I am not sure what happens if the hotel you booked starts a resort fee between the time you book and the time you arrive, but I suspect that folks are already being squeezed by this bait and switch con.)
Post what information you find so we can spread it around to your brothers and sisters on this board.


The better "when" is the day we see these fees go away or evolve into something optional.
Or the day when some casino begins to advertise that they have no resort fees as a way to promote their rooms the way Southwest promotes their airline travel with no baggage fees.
This too can be any day for any casino.

__________________
*****************
"Taking calculated risks is, well, risky; not taking them is pointless."
John Blowers from his novel Life on Tilt: confessions of a Poker Dad